serving,
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Episode 63: PD Conference | The Simple Effect of Serving, Courtney Hickman

July 19, 2018

Episode 63: PD Conference | The Simple Effect of Serving, Courtney Hickman

Leadership and trust come from humble and consistent habits. Courtney delivers simple-to-apply tactics to measure your heart and motive while serving inside of ministry and working towards your greatest potential.

EPISODE RESOURCES

GO DEEP INTO THE DIMES DROPPED, CONNECT WITH THE SPEAKER, AND CHECK OUT THE LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

  1. Instagram: @c_sharp260
  2. Facebook: @cdhickman1
  3. Twitter: @courtdhickman

Episode Quotable

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Episode 63 Transcript

Mingo Palacios:

What’s up PD podcasters. This episode is from the recent Purpose Driven Church Conference. Every conversation is full of ways to capture a vision and pathway for your churches, local and global impact. I hope you enjoy it.

Mingo Palacios:

Welcome to the Purpose Driven Podcast. My name is Mingo and as your host, my job is to introduce you to some of the nation’s most worthy of listening to emerging leaders. I shutter to think of what I was going to say there. I’m at the end of like a 13 hour day. But when you get Courtney, pastor, bishop, father disciple, I’m trying to think of any other like pronouns I can add to your title, you take the shot. So here we are. We’re in the airstream. We’ve got a live studio audience that’s streaming along. I want to first thank you for listening to the episode because that means you’re giving up your precious time and if your time is anything like mine, you don’t have a lot to give so that you would share a few moments with us on the microphone and hopefully walk away with something edifying and encouraging and something that you could pass onto somebody else, it means a lot to us. So on behalf of Purpose Driven and Saddleback, we thank you for tuning in. So Courtney, talk to me and introduce yourself to our listening audience. What do you do? How long have you been at Capital Christian? And maybe give us a little bit of a pathway of like what God has been teaching you as of recently when it comes to this topic of being trusted with more.

Courtney Hickman:

Wow. So I got to Capital Christian Center 2011. I’m actually former military. So me and my queen we both were dual military-

Mingo Palacios:

Hey.

Courtney Hickman:

Like 10 years. And when I got there 2011, I ended up deploying to Afghanistan. I got back late 2012, came back home to a brand new baby girl.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow.

Courtney Hickman:

Three months old.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you for serving also.

Courtney Hickman:

Yeah. So my oldest was five and then my little one was just born when I got back. And it was at that moment where really I was feeling that God was telling me time it’s time to shut it down in the military. It’s time to get out and go into ministry. So, came into ministry, joined the team, came on staff and currently right now what I do is a little bit of everything. I’m one of the teaching pastors there at Capital. I get the pleasure and opportunity to oversee our leadership renewal network.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow, that’s great.

Courtney Hickman:

Which we have our coaching network there and then I also get the opportunity to help lead one of our campuses. I just got back from Ghana just Saturday night.

Mingo Palacios:

Bro and today’s Tuesday. I don’t know how you’re standing right now.

Courtney Hickman:

Yeah, me neither, but yeah, just got back from Ghana Saturday night. Knocked off some stuff on Sunday, got on a plane Monday and here I am.

Mingo Palacios:

Get out of here. Bro, you are a man of many miles is what you are.

Courtney Hickman:

If that’s what you want to call it.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. I’ll give you that title. We’re talking about being trusted with more with the man of many miles. So you’re young in my book.

Courtney Hickman:

Thank you.

Mingo Palacios:

Thirty five, 35 years young. Our podcast is always asking the question as an emerging leader, I’d put you inside of that camp, right? As we try to educate both the leaders that are coming up behind us, those that are running alongside of us, but also to help kind of shed some light on those seasoned leaders who are asking the question, how do I engage with these young rambunctious vision filled leaders? Right? And maybe they’re rough around the edges, but you’ve found yourself in a place and a pace where you were trusted with one thing and then it slowly has expanded over time.

Courtney Hickman:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

Give us some key insights on what you think the Lord had done in and through you that set you up for that kind of trajectory in ministry.

Courtney Hickman:

Well, I think the biggest point first that I really want to talk about has to deal with being able to be a servant and being able to follow well. So in the military you’re taught to follow well follow orders. Fellowship, and I don’t even know if that’s a word. I guess how do words become words, right?

Mingo Palacios:

Hashtag fellowship. Hashtag fellowship.

Courtney Hickman:

Fellowship will lead you into leadership.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Courtney Hickman:

And so me and my queen, we really came in serving, we came in really under the radar just doing whatever we could. She was greeting, I was the keyboard guy playing keys. So, I’m a musician as well. So playing the keyboard.

Mingo Palacios:

Multiple talents, dude.

Courtney Hickman:

So anyways, doing what we could to serve in the kingdom. So we never came in with a resume like, “Here, let me do this, let me that.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s big.

Courtney Hickman:

We followed well and then we always found out if you’re following, eventually you’re going to look up. You’re going to be the one in front of the line.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow. Just stop and say that one more time, dude.

Courtney Hickman:

Well, if you follow well one day you’re going to look up and you’re going to be the one in front of the line.

Mingo Palacios:

So good.

Courtney Hickman:

And so that’s really what’s been huge for us to, I guess, get us where we got into. And people will ask us a question all the time, “How did you get where you’re at now? How’d you do…”

Mingo Palacios:

That’s the question I’m asking you right now.

Courtney Hickman:

Right? The one, two, three. The biggest thing for me and my queen, I used to tell people, “Oh it’s all God. It’s all him.” And then one day God just kind of slapped me in the back of the head. He said, “No, you know how.” And the how is proper perspective.

Mingo Palacios:

Okay, here we go.

Courtney Hickman:

We fight to keep proper perspective because perspective determines how you see something. How you see something, that determines also how you respond to it. And so in every situation, whether it’s serving, whether it’s taking out the trash, whether it’s so many different things. If you keep the proper perspective, then you always end up in the proper place, proper position, whenever it’s that time because God then knows that he can trust you. And so a lot of times if you’re young out there and you’re trying to, and we’re all ambitious, we all got dreams. We’ve got all of those things.

Mingo Palacios:

A hundred percent.

Courtney Hickman:

Again, fight for not only just your perspective, but fight for God’s perspective. Even right now, it’s amazing because I’m going to give you a prime example. How did I get here in this seat, I just walked up and said, “Hey.” I didn’t come look for anything. We just connected.

Mingo Palacios:

No. 100 percent. Yep.

Courtney Hickman:

Right. So, it really brings you back to the story of David. Interesting story about David, I think a lot of people miss is that he was, well, a lot of people get it, but there’s some key things that they miss. And I would think I missed it. David’s sitting there, he’s a shepherd, right? He’s out on the backside of the desert and the fields and everything. Everyone’s forgotten about him.

Mingo Palacios:

He doesn’t even get invited to the lineup.

Courtney Hickman:

Right, he’s missing everything. He’s missing out on everything. And even when they show up to say, “Hey, I’m looking for the next king of Israel.” Picks other sons. And he asked him, “Do you have any other sons?” One key statement, he says, “Yes, he should be with the sheep.” The true definition of obedience is when you can be found doing the last thing you were told to do.

Mingo Palacios:

Whoa. Yes. Dude, you’re gave me mean practical goods right now.

Courtney Hickman:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

Just say it again because I want it again. Every listener needs to hear everything you say twice.

Courtney Hickman:

Okay. Twice.

Mingo Palacios:

If you say it two times, it means they don’t have to listen to the who episode two times.

Courtney Hickman:

Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay.

Mingo Palacios:

The proper… wait.

Courtney Hickman:

The true definition of obedience is when you can be found doing-

Mingo Palacios:

When you can be found doing-

Courtney Hickman:

The last thing you were told to do.

Mingo Palacios:

The last thing you were told to do.

Courtney Hickman:

The last thing you were told to do.

Mingo Palacios:

Yo. I didn’t know I was going to get like senior pastor wisdom bleeding out of a 35-year-old friend from northern-

Courtney Hickman:

Washington state.

Mingo Palacios:

What does your team look like? I got to ask this question because you and I sit in a unique position where you’re not just like a guy who’s taking orders, you’re being called to develop teams. And then those teams are looking at you as their leader. So what are some key insights that you feel because of the great example of leadership that you’ve gotten? How do you play the dichotomy well? How do you say yes to the people that you submit to in ministry and you may not even agree 100 percent of the time with it? If you’re like me, everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. But when you come to serve and you come on staff, your position is to serve, but then you’re called to lead those that are coming under your leadership. What does that balance look like for you?

Courtney Hickman:

Well, let me first address the very top of that before we begin that. Here’s the key. You’ve got to ask yourself two questions. Are they asking me to violate anything in God’s laws or man’s laws? If they’re not asking me to violate any of those two, I can handle and do the mission. Sometimes we get caught up between opinion. Well, maybe that’s not how I would have done it. If my leaders asked me to do something, he’s not asking me to violate anything going against God, anything going against man that’ll put me in jail. Well guess what? I can fix myself. Get myself to that humility place.

Mingo Palacios:

Adjust. Perspective.

Courtney Hickman:

Adjust, perspective, right, and take care of whatever needs to be taken care of.

Mingo Palacios:

That is so matter of fact. Dude, I feel that a lot of people get caught up in probably wanting to hear their side stated, listened to, considered, but I’m just assuming that you’ve learned through your training that if it’s not against God’s principles and God’s character and it’s not against man’s law-

Courtney Hickman:

Right. Right. Right.

Mingo Palacios:

You adjust. You get it done. Of course you’re going to be trusted with more because you are aiming at hitting the bullseye every time a directive is coming down the line.

Courtney Hickman:

Well, and we think about this maybe man that’s trusting us with more, but really it comes to God. It all flows through him, so really it’s bigger back perspective. It’s bigger picture. It’s bigger. Schools always in session for you. It’s regardless of whoever it is, whoever you’re dealing with, at the end of the day, God’s going to ask you, “Hey, what was the lesson for today for you that came out of that?” And so that’s some of the perspective that me and my queen that we fight for and that God perspective. We’re always doing school for us.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s so good.

Courtney Hickman:

I know that sounds selfish, right?

Mingo Palacios:

No.

Courtney Hickman:

But it is truly-

Mingo Palacios:

Nobody else is going to do it for you. Right?

Courtney Hickman:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

How do you deal with disappointment with that perspective? I mean, what’s the, what’s one of the things you come back to? If you have your eyes set on something, it doesn’t pan out the way you wanted. It didn’t come off or it didn’t pop off the way that you hadn’t anticipated it to. How do you deal with disappointment?

Courtney Hickman:

Well, don’t try to avoid it.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Courtney Hickman:

People try to avoid disappointment and actually set up more disappointment because you try to avoid it? Disappointment is a part of life. Actually failure, anything you’re good at, you’ve probably failed at a lot of times. I mean, tying your shoes, you jacked it up, you know, trying to tie your shoe, trying to feed yourself. I still jacked it up right now. Maybe failure is like a spiritual gift of mine, so I still spill food on myself and that’s why my queen is like, “You can’t eat nowhere else in the house.”

Mingo Palacios:

Dude, you’re like as messy as any of your children. You’re like, “Okay, I’ve got to wash all your guys’ clothes now. I’ve got to take care of all of this stuff.” Hey, say hi to Tom King. Everybody just totally busting in on this conversation. Courtney, I just feel like you just slammed us with such solid like, the word is sober judgment. That was just like no fluff and it doesn’t need fluff. It’s like obedience is simple, but it’s not easy.

Courtney Hickman:

No, it’s not right.

Mingo Palacios:

I mean it’s a, it’s a simple concept, but it is not easy because it’s going against all that is in our humanity, right?

Courtney Hickman:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

But the dividends, you are a walking testimony to what it means, what it looks like to chase simplicity despite how difficult it actually is.

Courtney Hickman:

Well, like I was talking about the story of David. Interesting thing is a lot of people go chasing after the call, chasing after an anointing. Actually it comes to you. And that’s what I was alluding to earlier today. This came to me today. Please don’t hear me in a manner of, “Oh man, check me out.”

Mingo Palacios:

Of course.

Courtney Hickman:

No, it’ll just walk into you. David, he sat there. “Do you have another son?” “Yes, he should be with the sheep.” And had David and I’ve been doing the last thing he was told to do, and being with sheep wasn’t fun back in the day. I mean, you out in the field, you’re getting rained on, stormed on, snowed on, whatever.

Mingo Palacios:

That was not the glamorous spot.

Courtney Hickman:

And no one ever came to check on you. So he could been like, “Man, forget this man. I’m going over here. I’m going to check this out.” Or lots of times we will try to go meet our calling, but when the calling shows up to pick you up, you’re not there to be found.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow. So, so good. Are we having church in the airstream right now? I’m pretty sure we are. Hey Josh, I’m just going to tee you up to go and keys and you and Courtney can jam on some keys together. Oh Man. We try to have a good time and it’s funny because it can be boiled down to that kind of perspective. Now tell me this, with the company you keep, that helps us so much perspective.

Courtney Hickman:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

That helps with so much perspective. Somebody is listening to this and they’re like, “Man, I need to get some people like that in my world.” How did you find yourself in the company of great wisdom? If somebody is trying to maybe level up or if they’re trying to find new perspective, was there something that you could give us that would help them kind of readjust their trajectory pivot in a way?

Courtney Hickman:

Oh, cool. All right. So if you’re at home right now, I want you to pick up a cup. Okay? Pick up a cup, look at a cup. All of us are experts on a cup, right? But the question I have for you is, can you tell me everything there is about that cup? As you look at it-

Mingo Palacios:

I’m failing to answer this question. I’m imagining it.

Courtney Hickman:

Questions. Why do they choose the color? Questions start to come up? So as, as simple as a cup is, if you can’t tell me everything there is to know about the cup that should humble you enough. We’re talking about a cup. So let’s now get to God. Let’s get to wisdom. Let’s get to life. Let’s get to all of that. Leadership. It’s first, back to humility, right? I heard somebody say something great one time, “Either you put on humility or it gets put on you. Either way, humble is going to happen.”

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Courtney Hickman:

So I fight. I fight and don’t get it all. That’s why I say I fight because it’s a battle. I don’t know, it was like the word, right?

Mingo Palacios:

I appreciate that.

Courtney Hickman:

I fight to put on humility and so when that realizing I don’t know everything, and so that’s the, that is the first step is to put that humility hat on and wear it to the fact that I don’t know everything and be the last one you know, was is it James says? Be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to get angry. A lot of times we’re quick to speak. Slow to listen and quick to get angry because they were not listening to us what we said. We do the opposite of that.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Courtney Hickman:

So, I tried to be literally slow to speak, quick to listen, listen aggressively. Those are just even biblical principles that apply. So that way when I’m in the room and identify wisdom and just simple, become a student of life, become a student of other people. Those that stop to become students. That was another quote. I love quotes. They say most people die at the age of 22 they’re just not buried until they’re 60.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow, right? Good night.

Courtney Hickman:

And so, and most of their statements begin with, “Back in the day, back in the day, back in the day.” They stopped learning in life and they locked themselves.

Mingo Palacios:

Equals stopped living, right? Stop experiencing. So good. Okay. Courtney, I got to shut this down because I don’t want to run too long. If somebody wants to get in contact with you, your ministry or follow you, if there’s a way that they can tag on to you. How did they do that?

Courtney Hickman:

Wow. So, I’m on Instagram. You can follow me on Instagram at c_sharp260, that’s my favorite key c sharp. I play keys and everything. So csharp260. You can follow me there. I’m on Facebook as well, @cdhickman1. That’s my tag on there as well. And then Twitter is Court, c-o-u-r-t-d delta, Hickman and you can follow me there on Twitter as well. And so, yeah, hit me up on Facebook, any of those and I’ll answer what I can answer and then make up the rest. Nah I’m just kidding.

Mingo Palacios:

Courtney, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, man. I love how just direct straight to the point. I know you didn’t just learn that overnight. That is a life loaded bucket of lessons and I just, I appreciate you being able to so concisely share it. I would hope that I’d be as articulate as you when it comes to that, which I believe and how I lead because I think it speaks volumes, so thanks bro. I appreciate you being on our podcast.

Courtney Hickman:

Thanks for having me.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah, absolutely. Hey, if you’re listening to this and you’re on the live feed, I appreciate you guys. If you’re on the podcast and this episode inspired you, I want to encourage you to share it and/or tag somebody in this conversation that would benefit from hearing it. Courtney on behalf of Purpose Driven Church and Saddleback and Pastor Rick Warren. I am so blessed to know you. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. We will talk to you guys soon.

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